Tempo 2 Tantrum?

Hi, I'm new to this site and indeed to the world of Jukeboxes having just purchased my first a Rockola Tempo 2 in original unrestored condition and when I say unrestored I mean it hasn't been played for around 40 years!!

I've given her a bit of a clean, do you refer to your jukes as her? or is that just me. anyway she's cleaning up quite well and I can now read the writing on the amp which I couldn't even see for the dust!

The juke came straight from the states so I have wired up a step down transformer and everything including the valves all came alive!! I knew this was going to be a steep learning curve to get her up and running but the first step went well of course it was never going to be that easy!!

So to the reason for the post, after lots of cleaning inside including all of the contacts with contact cleaner I have yet to work out how to get the selector carriage to stop and play a record! The pin selection is working and the pin pops out as it should but the selector just continues on its way until it reaches the home position.
As I said I have cleaned all the contacts although without taking bits off getting to the rear plate contacts was tricky. I have removed the carriage and cleaned the underside.I have also tested and replaced fuses where necessary.

I do have a Jukebox repair company near my home but would like to at least give it my best shot first.
I have the Rockola manual including schematics.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated I'm sure some of you will have come across this or similar problems before.
Thanks !!!

Hello Attaxi,
you must test all contacts with multimeter, cleaning is not enough.
If the selector pin move, connexion keyboard/ selector drum is correct.You must control if contacts of carriage are OK, follow the wires on the schematics, check with the multimeter. There's a track with contacts behind the drum selector: clean and check with the multimeter,If necessary adjust the slats so that they touch their track correctly .There's a cam on left of gripper arm: this cam opens/closes 3 switchs. This switchs opens /closes different electrical circuit, if switchs not operate or in bad position, the carriage may not find pin selector.
The manual explains step by step when switch 1 open, switch 2, and so and so,and what happens. Without turning on the power and turning off the arm motor, you can turn the carriage and check step by step the contacts: switch 1, 2, 3.
Good luck
Frank

HI Frank thanks for your quick reply.
I will dig out my multi meter at the weekend and check all the contact.
I did try moving the camshaft with the power off and the motor arm disconnected but it will only move a small amount in each direction, not enough to allow the micro contacts to be located on each lever.
Should I be able to rotate the cam and the gripper arm?
Obviously as I have not been able to select a record I haven't seen the gripper arm in motion and it may well be gungged up and seized! I did try the old hairdryer trick which seemed to loosen up some components of the gripper mech.

I will do some testing over the weekend.
Thanks Again.
Allen.

1: You unscrew the 3 screws of the gripper motor, the motor goes down: the gripper arm is clear and you can move it slowly forward and backward.
2: in "home position" (gripper arm in magazin), switch n°1 (just right) is positionned in the cam groove.If is not the case, cam must be replace.
3: If you want it, you can slide the cam to the left (unscrew with allen wrech 3/32) and access the 3 switches.
4: control with multimeter the 3 switchs; if you press them, contact must be clean.
5: replace cam as in #2, this is explained in the manual at "n°1 micro switch, cam adjustment"

Frank

Hi Frank,
I have tested as best I can the micro switches and all seem to be working,
I have given the printed disc a clean again, as well as I can without taking it off.
Still not stopping to select.
I tried the gripper arm again and it wouldn't budge so I have taken it apart cleaned, oiled and rebuilt and it now works manually nice and smooth!!
I also tried with the motor reconnected starting with the arm over the turntable moving the tone arm across and the motor spun into action returning the gripper arm to the home position! So that's one problem solved.
Still need to work out why the carriage is not stopping it's obviously not getting the electrical connection so may need to find someone to do some electrical testing for me to try to pin point the problem.
Thanks again for your help and if you have any other ideas please let me know.
Allen

Hello Allen

I think your problem is to be found at the search carriage. There are two search pins (one for odd and one for even selections) which are held in position with leaf springs. These leaf springs are also responsible for the electrical connection. It is often the case that the contact point is oxidized and / or soiled and therefore no electrical connection exists. You should unscrew the leaf springs and clean the lower side. The contact surfaces of the search pins must also be cleaned.

Best regards - charly49

Hello jukeboxe's enthusiats,
yes Allen and Charly49, restoration (or maintenance) is cleanning, cleanning and re-cleanning. Our jukeboxes are hold and dirty often.
Re-clean contacts of carriage and test them with multimeter. Then carriage reconnected, select a record and if pin selector move correctly:
1: carriage finds pin selector and stops: hurrah!, problem solved!
2: carriage does not find pin selector (arrrgh!): clean conscientiously the pin selector and try again the same record. Maybe pins selector are dirty and they could work cleaned.
And cam with the 3 micro switchs, it's clean and OK?
Photos of carriage and pin selector would be fine.
Frank.

Hi frank and Charly49, I have stripped the selector carriage again, this time desoldering a couple of wires to be able to remove the top plate and get access to the leaf springs these were heavily tainted and cleaned up really well, I also cleaned the pins, again! I removed the wiper bracket assembly and gave those a clean too. I've added some photos.
Still no joy!!
The 3 micro switches are all cleaned and work fine.

Is it worth taking the selector unit ( pin drum ) off and giving that a clean? obviously it needs taking off and cleaning but is this likely to solve anything with reference to the selector not stopping?

Photos

Hello Allen

The carriage looks nice and should work well. There are some ways that can affect the function. One is the A / B switch and the wiring to the search pins. Another is that the search pins have a bad connection to ground. You can easily determine which of the causes applies to you.

The search pin must establish a connection between the leaf spring contact and ground. You can measure the resistance value between the tip of the selection pins and chassis with a multimeter. The value should be below 1 Ohm. If it is higher, the Selector Drum should be disassembled and cleaned. Otherwise the A / B switch or wiring is the cause.

Best regards - charly49

Hello Allen and Charly49,
If selector drum is brown/yellow=nicotine. Sometimes armature spring is black, it's because many dust is deposed (see picture: on left dirty, on right clean).
I agree with Charly49: many problems are possible, maybe on the same time! You must follow the manual sequence by sequence to eliminate problems one by one.
Without method you will search without finding.
Good luck,
Frank.

Ok, the Selector Drum is now off and I will begin cleaning over the weekend. will be in touch to let you know how it's going.
Thanks again.
Allen

As you can see the outside of the drum is cleaning up nicely but not to sure where to start for getting to the inside and don't want to disturb all the wiring any ideas?
Thanks
Allen

Hello Allen

I think this will help you.
The explanation is in german but the picttures will speak for themself.

[www.jukebox-world.de]

Greetings from Austria
Roland

Brilliant !! just what I was looking for thanks Roland!! Looks like this may take a while but should be worth it in the end.
Thanks again.
Allen
Greetings from London England.

Started cleaning the interior of the selector drum and though while it was off I would take a look at the Printed circular disc. As you can see in the picture the strips are very worn, does this need replacing? I have tested for continuity on each strip and even on the copper area it will show continuity.
Thanks again.
Allen.

Hello,
it goes well! For strips, you can scrub them gently with a gum of schoolboy, it should be enough.
For armature spring, you can clean them correctly without dismantling them, with toothbrush (An indispensable tool of any jukebox's enthousiast!). If you desmantling them, pay attention to the notch of pin selector and in the direction of the washers. And stay zen, it's meticulous...

Personally, I use this method to reassemble pin selector:

[www.flipjuke.fr]

But a good cleaning without dismantling must suffice.

Explanation is in french; Austria, Germany, France it's an international forum!
Good luck,
Frank.

Hi Guys, Looking at the selector coils they are quite dirty and black in colour, should they be cleaned? Looking in the manual they look silver!
Didn't want to start scrubbing them as I know they are magnetic and I was worried about damaging them apart from that everything else is clean and ready to be reassembled.
Frank the spring inside was exactly as you had described, Black!! so I went all in for a deep clean!!

Cheers
Allen

Hello Guys, hello Allen,
spring armature black is a "grand classic", often! Yes, you must clean top of selector coils with soap product, it must disappear. If it's not enough, rub it gently with steel wool "super fine": this product is fantastic.
Frank.

Hello

@ Frank

>>Yes, you must clean top of selector coils with soap product, it must disappear<<

Why do you want to clean the top of the selector coils?
For the magnetism it does not matter if the parts are slightly tarnished.


@ Allen

WARNING!

Never take steel wool in areas with magnetical materials.
It is horrible to get the fine particles off from magnetical parts.

At the older RO Selectors with the "scan wire" coming out of the selector drum you can be sure you will get big troubles with steel wool particeles, because they will make an internal ground connection and the magazine will not stop turning!


Kind Regards
Roland



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 30.11.16 11:21.

Hello Allen, hello Roland,
For selector coils
I thought they could be very very dirty (black dust). It was to clean the dirt without taking a shower. But yes, you're right, steel wool is to be avoided on magnetical parts, It was a bad tip.I have a picture of mine, they are also black (yet they are clean)!
I found how I reassembled pin selector on my Tempo 1: I plant them in a piece of polytyrene. Meticulous, yes, but easy enough.
Best regards,
Frank.

HI Frank, Roland & Charly 49 I will be staying away from the steel wool!
I will just give them a wipe over to remove any obvious dirt.
Frank I love the picture of the pins in the polystyrene wish i'd thought of that! I have rebuilt the armature springs,
I used some very strong magnets and lots of patience,
I did the first three and my son did the last three, took him half the time!!
Hope to get it all back together for the weekend and see if it makes any difference, even if it doesn't at least I know its been well serviced!

Thanks for all your help, will let you know how it goes.

HI Frank, Roland & Charly 49 I will be staying away from the steel wool!
I will just give them a wipe over to remove any obvious dirt.

Frank I love the picture of the pins in the polystyrene wish i'd thought of that! I have rebuilt the armature springs,
I used some very strong magnets and lots of patience,
I did the first three and my son did the last three, took him half the time!!

Hope to get it all back together for the weekend and see if it makes any difference, even if it doesn't at least I know its been well serviced!

Thanks for all your help, will let you know how it goes.

Everything is now cleaned and back in place but unfortunately it is still not selecting a record, same scenario as before, selection is made pin moves to outside position, carriage searches but does not select.
Charly49 the a/b switch you refer to, is that the double micro switch on the scanning switch assembly? I have checked this with the multi meter and it seems to be working fine.

Any other ideas please let me know.
Thanks
Allen

Hello Guys, hello Allen,
yes, double switch in scanning switch assemblyis a/b switch. You need to check connection between double switch/ control box/carriage. Without current the connections must be control, firstly.
What will I do:
1:Control of connections of double switch
2:Control of connections of control box (control box is under level operate/off/scan): maybe contacts of interlock relay (trip coil and release coil) are dirty. No emery cloth or steel wool to clean contacts, never. I use a rag strip gently slipped between the contacts, with contact cleaner on.Then you have to check connections interlock relay/switch 1,2 and 3/ double switch.
3:Another possible breakdown:I had corrosion on the cable between the play control relay (in power distribution) and control box.Of times it worked, sometimes not, it made me crazy! Chech this with multimeter, measure resistance value. No contact between 4 connections; each connection close to zero ohms.

Good luck

Hi Guys, Hi Frank, Thanks for your reply.
I have removed the control box, inside was quite clean,
I have cleaned all the contacts and checked with multimeter also checked the wiring from the control box to the power distribution panel, all ok.
All reconnected and still the same.

Trying to work out how to check interlock relay/switch 1,2 and 3/ double switch, i'm thinking with the box open but still connected. to do this i will have to loosen of some of the wiring so i can get to it.
Thanks again for everyones help i'm sure we will get to the bottom of this eventually!!
Allen

HI Everyone.

As the Christmas Decorations have gone up the tools have had to be returned to the shed and the front room returned to normality!
So as the Tempo is still not selecting it will be part of our Christmas Decorations this year!! (See Pics)

Wishing you all a Very Merry Christmas and a Rockin' New Year !!!

Allen.